After introducing ourselves, we asked the MP a number of questions.
1/ David queried the money being spent on a new nuclear power station. Nuclear power produces nuclear waste which is difficult to look after and to decommission and in the past previous nuclear projects have incurred huge cost overruns. As for the new proposed project, the government is guaranteeing EDF about £90 per MWh to produce nuclear energy whereas windpower is about 4p per kWh and the Ofgem price cap is approx 25p per kWh. Nuclear power is clearly more expensive and the government has indicated that it may allow EDF to charge construction costs – and if there’s another overrun in costs, the consumer will end up paying for it. David suggested that money would be better spent on renewables, improved storage facilities and on a better National grid preferably under public ownership rather than on nuclear plants.
The MP said that this is not her field of expertise but explained that the reason the government is investing in nuclear power is that they cannot work fast enough to reach the point when clean energy can be used in place of fossil fuels so for now nuclear power is required. Beccy acknowledged the points made and said that if David sends her an email detailing the points, she will write to Ed Miliband and his team and ask them to address the questions and she will forward the answers to him. David is happy to send an email, bearing in mind that the completion date for the new proposed plant at Sizewell is 2050 which is far too late to prevent the impact of climate change.
2/ Sr Mairead asked about Gaza. In selling arms to Israel, the government is contributing to the manslaughter and genocide in Gaza. There are over 5k dead now, many of whom are children. Isn’t it time that we stopped selling arms to Israel?
The MP agreed that what is happening in Gaza is horrendous and we all want it to end. What happened in Israel on October 7th 2023 was awful but the Israeli response is entirely disproportionate and there is no justification for it. We have asked the MP Hamish Falconer many questions about Gaza and he has explained that there is a contractual issue which the US holds with Israel. Funding is put into a central pot for countries to arrange for arms to be made available to them and the pot means that countries such as Ukraine can purchase artillery etc and defend themselves when needed. The issue is that the US holds the contract with Israel which allows Israel to access the pot. So the UK stopping any payments into the central armament pot would not stop the US contracts with Israel and it would mean that Ukraine and other areas would not be able to access the contracts they need and which are held with the EU and there would be less money for them to defend themselves. Ultimately, what the UK government has been trying to do is put pressure on the US and say that any contracts with Israel should be discontinued. As things stand, there is no longer any direct funding or direct contract between the UK and Israel – any former contracts were stopped. It’s a difficult situation and the matter of the central pot remains contentious.
3/ Celeste raised the subject of the CAFOD campaign to cancel the international debts for the poorest countries, approx 54 of them mainly in Africa and SE Asia as having to repay the debts is crippling these countries. Celeste knows that corruption and mismanagement exist but that is not the whole explanation for the situation countries find themselves in – for example, in 1994 the new S African government under Mandela was going through a difficult period because the government opted to repay their debts which meant that the government had far less money to carry out its agenda of providing housing, electricity etc. And at that time, the government was not corrupt.
Celeste said that CAFOD is running a campaign and there are 2 aspects to it:
- They are petitioning world leaders to do something about the debts. There is a proposed mass lobby on July 9th in Parliament Square and people have been invited to go to Parliament. Celeste asked if the MP was aware of this and if she would attend on our behalf.
- Many of the loans come through London based banks. Celeste asked what the UK government can do to lobby the banks to cancel the debts.
The MP said that cancelling the debt is an ongoing concern. She worked overseas for many years for a number of charities including World Vision and WHO. Whilst the MP is not against the debt being cancelled, whether it happens depends to a large extent on the outcome of conversations with the IMF and the World Bank. While the IMF and the World Bank are reluctant to cancel the total debt, they are under pressure to provide substantial debt relief. And if all the world leaders were able to agree that it is a good idea, they could also put pressure on the IMF and the Bank. The MP acknowledged that it is too simplistic to talk about corruption and said that if the debts were cancelled, the corrupt leaders may well spend the money on something else.
Beccy suggested that the best way forward would be for Celeste to write to Baroness Jenny Chapman, the Minister for Overseas Development to inform her of the CAFOD campaign and what they are planning to do and to ask what the government’s thoughts are on it. Beccy also mentioned that she would be happy to attend the CAFOD lobby on July 9th and to talk to people regarding the international debts.
N.B. In an email received a few days after the meeting Frances – the Constituency support – said that unfortunately the MP would not be able to go to the CAFOD lobby as she had other meetings to go to.
Celeste also asked why the Overseas Development Fund has been reduced to put money into armaments and defence.
The MP said it was a political decision. Defence spending has been incredibly low for some time and the armed forces have been poorly served – housing is appalling and the infantry have not got the equipment they need. Beccy accepts that spending on defence needed to be increased but she does not think the Overseas Development Fund should have been utilised for this as this fund was designed to support countries overseas and to maintain civil societies and stable governance. Without that, there is conflict and then more spending is needed for defence purposes – so a Catch 22 situation.
One of the things that Beccy intends to pursue regarding defence spending is that much of the Overseas Devt Fund which is left is being used in the UK to bolster the Home Office budget for housing people seeking asylum. Of course, funding is required for this housing but the Overseas budget should not be used for that. The Home Office has made a pledge to reduce their budget by clearing the backlog of people waiting for their asylum claims to be processed. Beccy is making a case that any reduction would be Overseas Devt savings and not Home Office savings and any savings should be repaid to the Overseas Devt Fund.
Beccy’s other concern regarding the Overseas Devt budget is the amount of funding required by Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance. Gavi is an international organisation whose aim is to help vaccinate children living in the world’s poorest countries. The work that Gavi is doing in providing vaccines and immunisations is fantastic. The problem is that the US has cut its USAid funding and no longer funds Gavi and other countries have followed suit. The UK is currently the biggest donor and the sums needed are much higher than expected.
Johanne commented that there is room for optimism. Years back, debt cancellation efforts resulted in about $130bn being cancelled for 36 countries. History shows it can be done. The MP agreed that we shouldn’t give up hope.
N.B. In the email received from Frances, she advised that there would be a chance to watch the 2nd reading of the bill for debt relief on 11 July https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3889/stages/19287
